Tuesday, August 31, 2010

Conditional Immortality

Reflecting on Joel Green's book Body, Soul and Human Life..

That being said, what do you think?  How will this change in the view of human persons be received by the Christian community?  Do you think Christians will simply attempt to debunk the science?  Or perhaps argue that science doesn’t provide relevant answers to these types of questions?  Alternatively, does the Christian faith require this ‘traditional’ view of a separate and immortal soul that is distinct from the material body?  Is it possible that the traditional view is wrong or that this view doesn’t accurately represent the description of human persons provided in the Bible?

http://scienceandtheology.wordpress.com/2010/08/30/does-the-christian-faith-require-an-immortal-soul/

I believe the Christian faith does not require a separate and immortal soul. My hope is the return of Christ and the physical resurrection of the dead.
1 Thess 3:13-18
I believe that God alone has immortality. I believe in conditional immortality.
I believe this views has implications for how we view the human person.


Annihilation

In 1868, Mill argued in the British Parliament that life imprisonment was 'less severe indeed in appearance, and therefore less efficacious, but far more cruel in reality' than capital punishment. This got me thinking about the philosophy and theology of eternal punishment.
from http://thinkingsoldier.blogspot.com/2010/03/philosophy-and-theology-of-eternal.html
He posts further thoughts and some quotes in another post
http://thinkingsoldier.blogspot.com/2010/08/case-for-annihilationism.html
including this one from Stott:

I [Stott] am hesitant to have written these things [about annihilationism], partly because I have a great respect for longstanding tradition which claims to be a true interpretation of Scripture, and do not lightly set it aside, and partly because the unity of the worldwide evangelical constituency has always meant much to me. But the issue is too important to suppress, and I am grateful to you [Edwards] for challenging me to declare my present mind.

I do not dogmatise about the position to which I have come. I hold it tentatively. But I do plead for frank dialogue among evangelicals on the basis of Scripture. I also believe that the ultimate annihilation of the wicked should at least be accepted as a legitimate, biblically founded alternative to their eternal conscious torment.

- David L. Edwards and John Stott,Evangelical Essentials: A Liberal-Evangelical Dialogue


It is encouraging that many are considering the issues of annihilation and conditional immortality.

Friday, August 27, 2010

Annihilationism and The story of the rich man and Lazarus

Nonconformist Chronicles  in part 10 of his series on hell  discusses The Story of the Rich Man and Lazarus
http://wade.typepad.com/nonconformist_chronicles/2010/07/hell-and-hades.html

Here are some  articles on this issue on the Afterlife | Conditional Immortality, Soul Sleep and Annihilationism Website if you would like more on this issue.
It is one of the most common questions I get asked when people discover I believe in the annihilationism:
What about the parable of the Rich man and Lazurus? To quote Warren Prestidge ( his article is linked below)

As with any parable, it is essential to distinguish between what says and what it teaches. For example, the parable in the first half of this same chapter of Luke speaks of a steward cheating his master and says: good on him! But Jesus is not teaching that we should cheat our bosses. What He is teaching that we should give to the poor, in view of God’s coming reckoning. That, also, is what the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is teaching. The story is simply a vehicle for this teaching...
He quotes Craid Blomberg
One of the most misinterpreted of Jesus’ parables is the story of the rich man and Lazarus (Lk. 16:19-31), which has been used repeatedly to provide in great detail a realistic description of life after death. In fact, the picture of the rich man in Sheol and Lazarus in Abraham’s bosom separated by a chasm but able to call to each other across it is paralleled by popular Jewish and Egyptian folk-tales. Jesus may have simply adopted well-known imagery but then adapted it in a new and surprising way to warn the godless wealthy about their need for repentance in this life before their fate is sealed

Annihiliationism | The Rich Man and Lazurus  Luke 16:19-31
Annihiliationism | The Rich Man and Lazurus
Annihiliationism | The Rich Man and Lazurus-part-one
Annihiliationism | The Rich Man and Lazurus: letter-to-a-pastor-who-insists-luke-1619-31-must-be-taken-literally-from-resurrection-volume-96-no-1-jan-–-jun-1993/
http://www.afterlife.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/eb-rml.pdf

Have you seen

Pastor Warren Prestidge made a 6-part video series (Now available entirely on You Tube) , entitled Life, Death and the Resurrection, which provides thought provoking teaching on the subject of life, death and the resurrection from a biblical (conditional immortality) perspective.

tags: conditional immortality, soul sleep, annihilation, annihilationism,   annihilationist

More on annihilationism

http://www.fallenandflawed.com/annihilationism-guide/
As part of the author's exploration into the issue of hell, she has made a  list of links mostly, but not exculsively against annihilationism.

"Listen: Everything that I list here is going to be critical of annihilationism. But everything I list here is also very conversant with the advocates and arguments for annihilationism.

In other words, you can learn the arguments of annihilation advocates from reading the objections.

Of course nothing beats first-hand interaction–that is if you have the time. Enjoy."

I enjoyed reading the conversation in the comments. Here are a few links collected from the comments which you may like to read.
Glenn Peoples : http://www.beretta-online.com/wordpress/
Brother Bird : http://www.scribd.com/brother%20bird
From Fallen and Flawed list : http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/aprilweb-only/23.0b.html

and I added a comment linking to the annihilationism resources at www.afterlife.co.nz

Tuesday, August 24, 2010

Annihilation

Babu G. Ranganathan writes in his blog

http://bgrnathan.blogspot.com/2010/04/traditional-doctrine-of-hell-has-greek_03.html

Although I am a conservative Christian (Reformed Baptist), I no longer believe that the Bible teaches or supports the traditional view of hell with its doctrine of eternal torment or suffering. 

The Bible does teach eternal punishment, but that eternal punishment ultimately is not eternal suffering. 

God's righteous wrath is not an end in itself but a means to an end - that end being the total and literal destruction of the wicked. Neither will God allow sin to exist for eternity by keeping sinners alive for eternity in hell. Neither is eternal torment necessary for God to satisfy His eternal justice.

It is sad that we have to affirm our conservation view of scripture before we write about our understanding that  the Bible that teaches the doctrine of annihilation.

By no means is the doctrine of conditional immortality new teaching. A minority of Christians, of various denominations, have held to this view of hell throughout the centuries. Even some very prominent Christians of the past have held to this view and there are a number (albeit a minority) of Christian theologians and scholars in the present who hold to this view. However, this view on hell, unfortunately, is known so little outside the Christian community and even inside the Christian community for that matter. 
But the more bloggers that do affirm their conversation view the more it will be accepted within the range of orthodoxy. It is encouraging to see more and more people taking a fresh look at the issue of hell and to be reminded again there are many who have gone before who have held this view despite opposition.

tags: afterlife, soul sleep, annihilation, conditional immortality

Hellfire or Annihilation?


 "Jesus Needs New PR"
Matthew Paul Turner, author of several books including Churched: One Kid's Journey Towards God Despite a Holy Mess
writes about how hellfire teaching effected him

Yet in the end, writing about his childhood in all its complexity is about rejecting the fear that too often ran through Turner’s life and faith, and still creeps in. “When you were introduced to God by way of hell, that’s a springboard into a pit of being afraid on various levels of life; whether that’s afraid of getting in trouble or afraid of failing or afraid of revealing the real you,” Turner says. “Probably in the process of writing this book even, I realized that some of my closest friends don’t really know me because I’m afraid, and only recently I’ve been able to open up. I hope people who read this book ask, ‘Does my truth make me free, or does it make me lie?’ Truth will always set us free.”
 
see also
http://www.jesusneedsnewpr.net/the-realities-of-hell-a-sermon/
Where he asks for our view of hell: I left a message in his comments: annihilation.

tags: afterlife, soul sleep, annihilation, conditional immortality

Friday, August 20, 2010

Tribe to Clark Pinnock from Edward Fudge


Republished from GracEmail
Grandson of missionaries, young supporter of Wycliffe Bible Translators, veteran of Francis Schaeffer’s L’Abri in Switzerland, doctorate under F.F. Bruce, theology professor at New Orleans Baptist Seminary, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Regent College, McMaster University, controversial thinker, author and teacher, Clark Pinnock, 73, was all this and so much more last Sunday, when he suddenly fell asleep in Jesus as the result of a massive heart attack at his home in Hamilton, Ontario.

To me, he was an encourager by mail who took time for me when I was wrestling with Reformed theology at Covenant Seminary around 1970 . . . a generous man who gave an endorsement for my first Hebrews commentary in 1974 . . . a friend with whom I visited at Evangelical Theological Society meetings through the years . . . with his wife Dorothy my hospitable hosts overnight once when I was in Canada . . . a later endorser of The Fire That Consumes and an early prominent evangelical spokesperson for the view of hell it presents.
He was a patient man who endured much from a few theological adversaries who were not worthy to tie his shoes . . . a jovial brother who was so tall that Sara Faye had to choose between cutting off his head or my legs when taking our picture in his yard the last time I was privileged to visit with him in person. In short, Clark was one of the most gracious, humble, productive, courageous, open-minded and trying-to-be-like-Jesus men (and theologians) I was ever privileged to know.
Clark Pinnock began teaching theology as a conservative fundamentalist, Calvinist, cessationist (anti-supernatural gifts). Over the years, he left Calvinism, adopted moderate charismatic views (after his nearly-blind eye was miraculously healed in answer to prayer — “one personal experience like that is more persuasive than a whole shelf of books,” he said — or words to that effect), and became a leading voice on the evangelical Left. He wrote books on the Bible, the Holy Spirit, “openness theology” (does God choose not to know the future?), God’s mercy (will He judge people who never hear the gospel by their response to what they did know from God?) and other subjects.
I agreed with many of his controversial views, am not sure of a few others. Whether his opinions were right or wrong, he knew, loved and served the Lord Jesus. His heart was right and that is what counts. Rest in peace, brother Clark. With thousands of others, I appreciate you, grieve your passing, and will miss you for the time I have left here. We look forward to seeing you again in the great Resurrection reunion.

[ Links to Clark Pinnock and The Fire that consumes are my additions to the original GracEmail . Clark Pinnock wrote among other things the conditional / annihiliation view of hell in the book "Four View of Hell", you can read a review of Four View of Hell. ~ editor]