Sunday, October 31, 2010

Conditional Immortality and the Human Person

I also become convinced that since I am not an immortal immortal ghost living inside a body, when my body dies I will not escape death and live on in heaven, or the underworld, or the astral plane or anything of that sort. I think the Bible teaches that death is very real and it puts an end to our life. There is no conscious state of any sort immediately following death. There is noting at all. Of course, I am a Christian and I do believe in the resurrection of the dead, but that obviously doesn’t happen when a person dies, or I think somebody would have noticed by now.
http://www.beretta-online.com/wordpress/index.php/luke-2343-and-soul-sleep/

Yes I too am convinced that I am a living soul, not that I have a separate part of me called a soul that goes somewhere when I die.
I have Joel Green's books very helpful on this topic. Here is an article that summaries one of this book which covers the issue of conditional immortality and the  soul:

Adam has much in common with the animals. They are of the earth (Gen. 1:24). They have the breath of life (Gen. 6:17; 7:15,22). They are living souls (Gen. 1:21, 24, 30). Stone concludes: “No exegetical justification exists for finding here the notion of abstract, immortal, disembodied personhood that we usually mean when we speak of the “soul” (p59).
This does not reduce humanity to the level of brute beast. It does, however, recognise that physicality is a vital element to human existence. It is wrong to distinguish the “physical” from the “spiritual”. The fate of all creation hinges on human destiny; a truly human person is a social person; humanity stands responsible to obey God’s word and is called to be his “image” before creation, but none of this requires an “immortal soul” or “substance dualism”. Neuroscience then, far from undermining Christian belief, encourages a closer reading of the text and supports the biblical view of human person-hood.

Thursday, October 7, 2010

Hell, Annihilationism is a hot topic!

http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-what-are-you-hearing-about-hell invited others to comment on the doctrine of hell. Many people have commented ( over 300 comments when I last looked: the doctrine of  hell is a topic being discussed on the web today. I quote from Hell Under Fire | Annihilationism , Universalism or the Traditional View 

First up I think we in CIANZ ought to be encouraged by this book, Hell Under Fire. Seriously! First, the fact that nine dedicated scholars have gone to such lengths to produce this combined case shows that the Traditional view of hell – unending torment – really is “under fire” today. That’s a very good thing, in so far as it is testimony to the fact that our view, Conditional Immortality, is taken very seriously today, not just by a few on the fringe, but by all who know the subject, including evangelical Christian leaders. As the book itself says, challenges to the Traditional view have “moved from the periphery of evangelicalism to its center” (p29).

Difficult passages for Conditional Immortality?

http://igspong.blogspot.com/2010/09/two-souls-not-asleep.html
For soul-sleepers, the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 16:19-31 is difficult to explain away. It indicates a consciousness after death. So, what is the soul-sleep theory? It purports that between death and the resurrection, the soul sleeps and is not conscious.  Another difficult passage for soul-sleepers to explain is Luke 23:43 where Jesus tells the thief on the cross, today you shall be with me in paradise. 2 Corinthians 5:8 speaks of being absent from the body and at home with the Lord. In Philippians 1:21-24 Paul desired to depart this flesh and be with Christ. Revelation 6:9-11 speaks of slain souls that cried with a loud voice. The theory of soul sleep is a dubious, one-sided view which takes one set of passages as literal and others as non-literal metaphors.
Here are the articles on this website that address the issues the blogger raises
 1. Lazarus and the Rich Man
2.The Thief on the Cross
3. Absent from the body Present with the Lord
4. Depart and be with Christ  5. Revelation 6:9-11  There are probably other articles too.

The Thief on the Cross

Lu 23:42  And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Being with the thief in Paradise is not "remembering" him. Jesus was correcting the thief by letting him know that He was remembering him that very day.

The false teaching of souls in heaven started a very long time ago. When the entire Bible is studied for truth, there is no doubt whatsover that there is a punctuation flaw in our Bibles in Luke 23:42. How ridiculous to think that Jesus walked this earth before His ascension in just His bodily form. And if He was not only in bodily form when He was resurrected, then, like Lazarus before Him, His soul must have made a trip to heaven, back to earth and then back to heaven again.

http://atheolous.blogspot.com/2010/10/correction-for-mr-camping-on-1st-thess.html

On this same topic is the following article which might be of interest
The Thief on the Cross